TALIAFERRO TIMES Volume I, May 8, 1998 Issue 43 SALUTATIONS
Thanks so much, all of you, for continuing to send in information to be used in
TALIAFERRO/TOLIVER TIMES. Without your wonderful contributions, there would be no
TT. Please keep it up. With summer coming, I know mail will slack
off, but we don’t want TT to slack off.
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Below you will find Ginger Shierer’s introduction. There is some possibility
that she is descended from one of the little daughters of Richard and Dorcas Perkins
Taliaferro. He was killed at the Battle of Guilford Court House in Guilford Co
NC - a true hero. After the Revolutionary War Dorcas Taliaferro and her
four(?) little girls moved to Wilkes Co GA with her father-in-law, Dr. John
Taliaferro. These little girls would provide us with a tremendous opportunity to
help Julia with her dissertation on Taliaferro women.
Can we round up some information on the lives of the four daughters of Richard
Taliaferro to send to Julia?
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We are becoming known internationally, it seems. JOSETTE (asstal@aol.com) wrote to
us from France. In response, I told her about the Taliaferro legend of the Norman
knight who was the arms bearer for William the Conqueror, and about the Italian/French
Lanier family that married our Taliaferros in London. Below is Josette’s first
message to us, and the second on which doesn’t do much for perpetuating the Norman
knight legend. Many thanks, Josette, for having the initiative and taking the time
to correspond with us. I am so impressed with the ability of our international
correspondents to speak with us in English. They are to be admired for their
perseverance and their ability to learn our language.
***Caroline Cook has told me about "your" Taliaferro. I don't know if you would like to hear about an other Taliaferro who lived in south of France (which belonged at this time to the Aragon Kingdom)? I think that he is not the same person that is the first Taliaferro of your lineage. He got his surname like a nickname, as everybody in this time. This nickname was be given to him because of his feats of arms against the Moors. He was Bernard Taillefer, Count of Besalu and owned the castle of Tautavel, in south of France. I am French (not by the name, but by nationality) and I would like you to excuse my "bad" English. I think I may be understood, but in a language not so "academical" that I would want.
Mes salutations, Josette
Josette’s second message:
***I'm sorry, but I’ve found that our Taliaferro name stopped with Bernard Taillefer, Count of Besalu. I just read that his son was named Count Guillaume (in Catalan Guillem) le Gros (William the Big). We supposed that he was an ancestor of my husband. So, I can’t continue his story as Taliaferro. I can just say that our Taliaferro died drowned in the Rhône on 29 November 1020. I have no objection if you use my message for your next issue, but I don't think it is very interesting for your genealogy work!
On the other hand, my father (who is 81 years) is Norman and one of his ancestors was "perhaps" a Norman knight who came to the conquest of England, like your Taliaferro, with William the Conqueror. He was named De Brix and the family legend says that he has given the De Brus or Bruce family and even a Scotland Kings family. I never have the proof of that. I will search it in my father’s information.
Merci de m'avoir lue. A bientôt. -- Josette.
NEW MEMBERS
JANE LONG (Jhl3127@aol.com)
***I am Jane Hodgin Long, grand-daughter of Ida Cheatwood Taliaferro (married J. Frank
Hodgin April 27, 1892 in Bethany Presbyterian Church, Roanoke VA.) Ida was the
eldest daughter of Martha Jane (Jenny) Cheatwood and Alexander Brown Taliaferro, born
1-30-1867 - died 11-19-1947. She had four sons - Ellis Ray, Willard Randolph, Irven
Cheatwood, and Herbert Brown Hodgin. I am the eldest daughter of Irven Cheatwood
Hodgin and Mary Uldene Vermillion . Irven's birth date 6-l6-1895; married May 1920;
died 8-18-l966. Uldene born 12-10-1898, died 1-14-1979. I am one of four
daughters in order; Jane Faye (Long) Born 2-24-21, Betty Lorene (Wright)
9-15-1922, Margery Manon (Strayve) born 8-30-1923, and Uldene Irvida (Gorrell) born
10-3-1924 - died 1-16-1998.
This covers my immediate descent from Taliaferro family.
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GINGER SKINNER SCHIERER (genegin@ix.netcom.com)
***Thank you for putting my name on the mailing list. I have reworked my information some but please make any changes you think would help.
My Taliaferro connection is one of Family Tradition. My 4th Great Grandfater, William Lay is said to have married a Teliaferro. Based on the 1830 Roan Co TN census my Taliaferro grandmother was born between 1770-1880. William Lay and his Taliaferro wife appears to be the parents of Richard, Jesse, John, William Hardin, James, Rachel, Jane, and Judah.
My 3rd Great Grandfather William Hardin Lay, born Nov. 8, 1808, gives his place of birth as TN.
One article on the Lay family states that the estate settlement of Richard Taliaferro, son of Dr. John Taliaferro, was co-signed by ___Lay. Another article by Willie Catherine Ivey on the Taliaferro family state that an _____Lay witnessed the deeds transferring Dr. John Taliaferro's Surry Co., NC land to his children before his moving to GA. Neither document has been found. HELP!! It is know a Charles Lay (possible father of William) was living in Surry CO., NC at the time these documents were signed.
[JB Note: In the Surry County, NC, Court Minutes, 1768-1789, edited by Mrs. W. O. Absher, I find the following notation:
“13 November 1781. Admr. Estate Richard Talliferro, deceased, granted Dorcas
Talliferro, wife and relict, said deceased; John Talliferro and Wm. T. Lewis,
securities; sum 500 pounds. Ordered that Dorcas Talliferro, wife and relict Richard
Taliaferro, who fell in his countrys cause, be exempt from paying tax, she having a
helpless family to support.”]
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DAN JOHNSON (DGUYJOHN@aol.com) is the husband of Virginia Tolliver Johnson. A later note to me tells that they are off to Florida to visit her family. Hope they’ll return with lots of Taliaferro/Tolliver talk to share with us.
*** Hi folks, my wife is Virginia (Tolliver) Johnson. I was trying to think about
some of the family traditions and this is what I came up with. Granma Jane(Brown)
Tolliver, (grandmother to my wife) smoked a corn cob pipe and lived in the hills of
Kentucky. (Soldier, Kentucky) My wife (Virginia and her sister Lorretta (Tolliver)
Morse have had careers and taken excellent care of their families as well.
Many of our Tolliver nieces have gone to College and have degrees. Our
Tolliver women in our family are very mechanical and can fix anything. Our Tolliver
family were of the farming community. My wife can do that deal with the rods, when
you try to find water in the ground, my father in law could also do that. Doesn't
work for everyone though. My wife's family would give there shirt off of their back
to some one less fortunate. Good hearted people. Just a few comments. Dan
Johnson husband of Virginia Tolliver Johnson.
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NADINE GRUBS SMITH (NGS51@aol.com)
***I have recently subscribed to the TALIAFERRO / TOLIVER TIMES. At this
point, I am not sure just what my connection to the TALIAFERRO / TOLIVER line is. I
hope to discover that soon. This is what I do know:
My gg grandfather was Toliver Hedgepath Grubbs, Sr. He was the son of Enoch Grubbs, Jr., b. 1781 in Camden, Fairfield District, SC, d. December 19,1844 in Chester or Fairfield District, SC & Sarah Rhoda Parnell, b. ca. 1785 in Chester District, SC, d. November 17, 1854, in Chester District, SC, m. ca. 1799 in Chester District, SC. Toliver was the grandson of Enoch Grubbs, Sr., b. 1755, d. 1832 in Fairfield District, SC & Florid K. Burton, b.1737-1762, d. 1811, married 1775. Toliver Hedgepath Grubbs, Sr. was born December 17, ca. 1817, probably in Chester District, SC. By 1850 he was living in Union County, MS with his wife, Jemima Caroline Pannell & their first four children: William Henry, Mary Ann, James & Zachariah. William Henry & Mary Ann were born in AL while James & Zachariah were born in MS. They would later have four more children: Iss P., Martha C., John Simon (Simeon) & Toliver Hedgepath (Heddie), Jr. (all these children were born in MS). Toliver died February 18, 1905 in old Pontotoc County, MS & is buried in the Dunlap Cemetery in Union County, MS. I knew from family records that Toliver's middle name, Hedgepeth, was a connected family surname but not until I saw a TOLIVER surname query was I aware that his first name probably also had its beginnings as a surname.
I am looking forward to information on the TALIAFERRO / TOLIVER line as well as finding the origins of my gg grandfather's TALIAFERRO / TOLIVER connection.
RESPONSES
DAWN HUTCHISON (DHutchi800@aol.com) Great response, Dawn, thanks so much.
***I found the article of "Pamunkey Neighbors," written by Sam and Ruth
Sparacio very interesting, I purchased the book some years ago. Most of family was
in the book under the Lindsay family who arrived there with James Lindsay of Scotland and
Caleb, his son, the surveyer of the county. We found our first Taliaferro, Polly
married to Caleb's son, Carlton Lindsey, b in 1760 in VA and d in Trigg Co., KY.
They went to Halifax Co., NC. Carlton and his family with his five brothers and
their families migrated to Trigg Co., KY, (Then called, Christian Co., in the early
1800's.) They were in the census of 1810 of KY.
The children of Carlton and Polly were:
i. John
II Taliaferro
iii Susa who married a Holland
iv Pricilla, also married a Holland
v Starling, b 5 Jan 1797
vi Martha, married a Cook
vii James
viii William
ix Vines
x Phanny
xi Melinda, married a Colson
The will of Carlton Lindsay is recorded in Trigg Co., KY, Will Book "A," page 90. It lists all of his children by name, and his wife, Polly Taliafero.
If anyone knows of this family and is related, I would like to share what I have with
them and hear their story. If anyone could help me find Polly, who her parents were,
siblings, etc., I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance.
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WAYNE ROGERS (hcfr@mindspring.com) responds with more information about Dr. John Taliaferro of Surry Co NC and Wilkes Co GA and Richard Taliaferro of Blenheim. Many thanks, Codge - hope we can expand our information on Dr.John. Evidently, he left many, many descendants - or his son Charles did.
[Before the next issue, I hope I’ll have time to transcribe the Surry County Taliaferro records. Hope so - have been trying for some time, but a deadline has been looming in other areas.
I hope we can resolve our question about the origin of the Tolivers in Wilkes County (next door to Surry Co). I had understood that they descended from Charles, son of Dr. John. Codge seems to feel that that is not the case. Let’s dig on this question, folks.]
***Anyone interested in Dr. John Taliferro of Wilkes Co GA will find all the information needed in a book by Willa Catherine Ivey on his family. The title is "Ancestry and Posterity of Dr. John Taliaferro and Mary (Hardin) Taliaferro." He lived in Surry Co VA but appears to have had no immediate connection with the Tolivers of NC.
Jane Bankhead's husband was Robert Taliferro of Blenheim, probably a son of John of the Mount (d 1763) and Agatha Hay since he purchased Blenheim from Roger Madison in 1753 with John of the Mount as his security.
John Bailey Calvin Nicklin was mistaken about the husband of Katherine Debnam Grymes
being Henry Deadman. The records of York Co VA, which he did not consult, prove his error.
William Debnam and the marriage of his widow Katherine to Charles Grymes who was also the
guardian of her children make it clear. I made the same mistake in "Gone to
Texas" - as will anyone else who fails to check ALL the primary records.
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THE PHANTOM (VLTP@aol.com) has been working overtime on our behalf. Thanks so much for responding to three items in the last issue of TT!
***Response No. 1:
Samuel Taliaferro 1717-98 m 1749 Ann..........(possibly Taylor-no proof). He was a Rev War
Soldier; lived Orange Co, Va -possibly Albemarle Co as this is the land that is
documented. He is thought to be a son of Robert 2 and Margaret French as he named is
daughter French.
Only issue of record;
Francis Taliaferro 3/12/1750-2/18/1826 -moved from Va 1813 to Guthrie, Todd Co, KY; m 1795
Letitia Hughes 1761-1842 d/o Stephen Hughes.
Issue:
Nancy French Taliaferro 5/11/1796 - m John
Edrington
Sally Hughes Taliaferro 5/11/1796- twin m 4/5/1815 John H. Lively
Samuel Walker Taliaferro 7/19/1798-10/11/1879 m 6/24/1829 Sally McClung Moore
8/14/1804-8/7/1891
Leroye Taliaferro 8/14/1800-7/3/1871 dsp single
This is from the book by his descendent Sally Taliaferro Lehman "Taliaferro Twist" which may be accessed from the Ladder Day Saints. Has all the wills, deeds, etc. with all the above info plus more. Francis lost his eyesight at the age of 40 in a game of quoits, but apparently that did not stop him from having a full life. There is the family taken down through Samuel Walker which is most complete.
Response No. 2:
Responding to Cyndi Repp’s question -- Zachariah Taliaferro had a daughter, Mary Boutwell Taliaferro who m 1/19/1789 Henley Drummond. I do not have a list of their children, just Henley,Jr, who d young, John Drummond, and Zachariah Drummond who m Isabelle Taliaferro, a d/o John Taliaferro & Betsy Loving, but I would bet that one of the Drummond daugs m a Hamner. John ended up in Brownsville, Haywood co, TN. Maybe if she looks there she will find records.
Response No. 3:
Responding to Robert G. Beheler’s question: Creed Toliver was one of a
set of twins ,youngest sons of Soloman 1804-65, s/o Jesse and Frances Stamper, and (2)
Peggy Ann (Blevins) Toliver, widow of George Toliver. They were b 8/4/1846. They
married Burchett sisters and lived in W.Va. Clark Nukols d 1900 and married
Elizabeth Burchett, Creed m Frances Irene Burchett.
RESEARCH
JOYCE BROWNING (JBROWN7169@aol.com) We spoke in the last issue about the
Taliaferro/Hardin connection. I (JB) believe we agree that the wife of Dr. John
Taliaferro of Surry Co was Mary Hardin, daughter of Henry Hardin, and granddaughter of
Mark Hardin. Here are a few quotes from “Landmarks of Old Prince William
County,” by Fairfax Harrison, which concern Mark Hardin. Maybe this will jump start
our Hardin search.
P. 201
**While Lee's [Thomas Lee] grant carried the Virginia frontier to the first hills, the
immediately significant occupation of the territory was that covered by more than fifty
small grants on the upper waters of Marsh Run, recorded between 1710 and 1719, when the
proprietary office again was closed for three years. The incidental recitals of the
land books testify that by 1715, few as they may have been, some of these grantees already
called Elk Marsh home. Among such proven pioneeer residents were William Russell and
Mark Hardin, as well as those who gave their names to streams; John Brown and William
Allen, on Brown's Branch; John Marr and John Hooper on Marr's Branch; and Jeffrey Johnson
on Johnson's Branch.**
P. 205
Author's note to above: His [Hardin's] grants of 1716 are [Northern Neck Grants]
5:93, 153. Others in 1723 (N.N., 4: 5, 56) 'on the west branches of Elk Run
and on the head of Marr's (now Harper's) Run' included the future site of Hardin's
Ordinary.
P. 489:
Chapter - Old Roads and the Ordinaries: **Hardin's: After crossing Deep Run and so
entering into old Prince William, Dalrymple passed Elk Run Church and, sixteen miles above
'Pickets' reached 'Hardings Ord.' [Note: Picketts Ordinary is known as the
first public house on the Fredericksburg-Winchester road above Falmouth. It was
originally in King George County, and a boundary change ca 1755, put it in lower
Stafford.]
**In June 1716, Mark Hardin had the first of several land grants in the Elk Marsh settlement in what was then Richmond and later Fauquier. As we have shown, the recitals of other land grants indicate that he was living on Marsh Run in 1717 and so was one of the pioneer founders of Fauquier. In 1723 he appears further east 'on the branches of Elk Run.' [see note below] It was here that his son, Martin Hardin, established an ordinary on the 'Shenandoah Hunting Path' or Falmouth Road. The site as indicated by Dalrymple was 1-1/2 miles north of Elk Run Church; and, as all ordinaries were at crossroads, it seems probably that it was a Hardin's Ordinary that the original 'German Path,' leading to Germantown, left the Falmouth road; as did the earliest road leading to the Elk Marsh settlement. In 1741, Martin Hardin voted in Prince William, and on the organization of Fauquier in 1759, had license to keep ordinary 'at his house.' By a deed of 1774 Martin Hardin recited that he was then living in Augusta; and in 1802 his son, Mark Hardin, reciting his own residence in Washington County,Kentucky, conveyed Martin Hardin's lands on Elk Run to Joseph Blackwell. The subsequent records of the Blackwell family identify the site of Hardin's ordinary as that stage of the Winchester road where 'Blackwell's Coloured School' now stands as indicated on the Fauquier may of 1914.**
P. 514
Author's Note: Booger, "Gleanings," p. 199: Fauquier Court Order
Book, 1759. This is confirmed by a deed (Fauquier D.B. I:186) from William Eustace
to 'Martin Hardin, Ordinary Keeper,' of certain lands on Elk run adjjoing 'the said
Hardin's.' This Martin Hardin was the father of that John Hardin (1753-1702), the
robust Indian fighter in the founding of Kentucky, for whom Hardin County in that
Commonwealth is name, and from whom descend a 'courageous breed' of four generations of
soldiers of who Kentucky is justly proud. (See T. M. Green, 'Historic Families of
Kentucky," 1st Series - 1889, P. 177). Mr. Green quotes family tradition that
this Martin Hardin 'lived in Fauquier in humble circumstances,' so it seems improbably
that he as the Martin Hardin who, in 1759 (Hening, vii, 316, 426), incorporated an
'addition' to Dumfries. Dr. Stanard says (Va. Mag., xxvi, 334), that these Hardins
had 'for generations lived in St. Paul's parish, (Chotank) and, as they continued to
reproduce the names Mark and Martin, there were doubtless contemporaries of the same name
who, in 1759, were still living in Chotank.**
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Here are a few bits of random information I picked up recently from “Spotsylvania County Records,” Edited by William Armstrong Crozier. There’s lots of Taliaferro information indexed in this publication if someone can extract it.
***Deed dated 1 July 1725, of James Taylor of Drysdale Parish, King and Queen Co, Gent. to John Taliaferro of St. George’s Parish, Spots. County, Gent. 5 shill. ster. 1260 acs of land which is the remaining part of an order of Council granted to Francis and Anthony Thornton 2 May 1718, for 4000 ac (which 1260 ac by a note from under the hand of sd. Thornton’s directed to me 1 May 1721, ordered to be surveyed for sd. Jno. Taliaferro, as by sd. note will appear) and is included within the bounds of a patent of 8500 ac. granted to the above sd. James Taylor, 21 July 1722 - lying in St. George’s Parish. witnesses W. Russell, Richd. Bayley, Samll. Loyd.
***Will of Robert Taliaferro, dated 1 Feb 1728; probated 4 Feb 1728. To brother
John Taliaferro, land in spots. Co. Wife (no name given) land in Essex Co; daughters
Mary and Elizabeth Taliaferro “that they will not convey unto Mr. George Braxton the
land in King & Queen Co. which I have sold him, that then I give and bequeath in Essex
Co to him and his heirs forever.” Dau. Martha Taliaferro; brother Richard
Taliaferro. Testator mentions Negroes and chattels in Spotsylvania Co he brought
down into Essex Co. on my plantation there.
Exor, wife and brother John Taliaferro. Witnesses G. Braxton, Jr.,
William Taliaferro.
***Will of John Taliaferro, Spotsylvania County, Gent. Nuncupative Will. Deposition of William Robinson, of spots. Co, Gent, aged 43 years. Deposeth and saith that on Dec. 25, 1750, he was at the house of John Taliaferro, who was very ill of white sickness, and that the same day he died, and that three or four hours before his death he called his brother Francis Taliaferro, of sd. county, Gent., and declared to his said brother to let his sister Brooke have 200 lbs. that Christopher Robinson at Urbanna owed him, and for the said Francis to raise another 100 lbs. and let her have it; then said John told said Francis that all of the rest of his estate he left to him, the sd. Francis, etc. Said Robinson made oath to the above Court held for Spots. Co, Sept. 3, 1751.
***William Strother of Culpeper Co. to Kemp Taliaferro of Caroline Co. 20 lbs. ster. All right title, interest or claim which sd. Strother has himself or by right of his wife Mildred, under the will of Zachary Taliaferro, decd. Witnesses John Field, Reuben Long. Dated 9 May 1749. Recorded 7 Apr 1761.
TALIAFERRO TIMES is compiled from email contributions and other sources. Information
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submitter. The editor reserves the right to edit for brevity and clarity.
Distributed by Joyce
Browning
©JBrown7169@AOL.com
8 May 1998